Welcome to part three of a conversation about being awake between:

      and      
    Madam X                Suzanne Taylor


...with occassional visits from Jim Dreaver and others.




For prior conversation, click here.



Madam X says:

Something began to coalesce in me yesterday, and today it has been getting clearer and even beginning to form. It really began a few weeks ago when you suggested doing a show of the Eternal History.

My main purpose in Life is to bring the news of the Eternal Beings and their Culture, the knowledge of the Time Sphere, and the Way of traveling in Eternal Time – all for the purpose of cultivating a greater unity. And my work with the Human Being Society is planting the seeds of this unity among Humans. It is a first step.

I've had to prepare myself by doing lots of research about the present and contemporary ways of communicating, and forms for that communication. All of the energy I had been extending outward to explore, gather information, touch, and sense beyond my own body, came rushing back into me. I felt like I was a huge vacuum sucking it all back. I have been integrating it all, and I'm beginning to see how it would all be focused, in a new creation.

This morning I started to write the plan of a "play-performance-ceremonial-revealing" of the message. It is based on the Eternal History, but will take (hopefully) a form that is full of variety, by using different characters and visuals and maybe prerecorded parts, too – telling the Story, presenting it as if a few of us are gathering to share our Life experience. It would appear informal, but actually be all planned. It is not meant to be a one person performance. I'm hoping that you and Kim and Diahann and Madeleine and Bob and ??? will take part in it.

I feel clear and focused about this. I want it to be a big Human Being Society gathering. And I want to invite everyone who has heard or responded to the Human Being Society material, or Madam X, or is even remotely connected to any of us.

I want it to be a work of art.

I invite you all to contribute to this growing project, (reflections, creative ideas, suggestions, whatever may come to you ) if you feel so inspired. I'll give you all copies of the Eternal History for background info. It is a big project. I Love big projects, and I really Love including all facets, to make whatever it is very rich and new and expansive. I hope we will start talking about it when we meet again (and in email).

To begin setting the stage, I think it's time to start putting out the brochures. I started making brochure stands today. So, if anyone wants to help by taking them to places (cafes, health food places, book stores, work places, schools, or who knows? – use your intuition ) and asking if they would allow them a small spot, now is the time. Also, I think it would be a good idea to send them in the mail to certain people, those who have responded to the conversations and web radio, those friends of Madam X on my lists, and WHOEVER might come to mind. I am making the brochures and envelopes and postage available to all of you, so if you feel inspired, do what you will. And I will be doing it too.

Suzanne, your dialogue suggestion sounds interesting too. Could we be planning both? I enjoy the exchange with Jim. I like his openness and his store of knowledge. And I think that a dialogue for the purpose of seeing the uniqueness of our gifts, our different pathways in Life, and how we DO fit together and augment one another, might result in a combination that would expand us all.

"To add to the teaching." I like that.

So this is a lot. It's a little garden beginning to grow. It's alive, and well. Let's grow with it.



Jim responds to Gail's comments on "We Can Change the World":

Thanks for your response, Madam X.

"I'm wondering if it might be of value to you, as a teacher, to know about exceptions to the rule?"

Yes, it is always good and valuable to see that there are other ways, including the pathless path, which Krishnamurti always spoke of. What I enjoyed about sitting with you at Suzanne's was your openness to the now, to the unknown in the now.

"By the time there are guides, the terrain has been explored and mapped. But someone must go out into the unknown, where there is no one to guide them, in order to see beyond the known, and discover it, and make it known. That one is guided by some deeper connection. A direct connection. And that direct connection is not something that can be taught. It is only an expression of Life. It has a different purpose. And I feel it needs to be considered."

In a new book I am working on about enlightenment (what else!), I talk about the role of the spiritual master, the guide, and how he or she ultimately brings us back to the master within, that inner connection you speak of.

"I'm saying this to add to the teaching, not to negate it or any part of it. Guides have an important purpose, as do paths. They are part of establishing outposts and settlements and civilization and connecting worlds and bringing about communication and trade in thought and vision and possibility. But don't forget to include the anomaly – that which is outside the realm of the known and established and accepted. Because it is precisely those who explore where there is no path at all who discover the new. The new is future time."

Ultimately, it is an unknown path. What the guide does is get us oriented in the direction of the unknown, prepares us, if you like, so that we can now travel that road, fearlessly.

"Now I understand how these two Ways fit together, and are part of each other. And I wanted to share it with you. And I am interested in knowing the thoughts and feelings of your response."

There will always be those few, like yourself it seems, who have no guides whatsoever, and for them it is completely a journey of faith, into the unknown. Although in your case, were you not guided, in some sense, by the Eternal Beings? Even Krishnamurti had guidance from the Theosophical teachings early in life, and though he later rejected most of them, the essential teachings, that enlightenment or freedom did exist, stayed with him.



Suzanne responds:

Sounds wonderful all the way around. What an intelligent line of communication.



Gail responds to Jim:

"Ultimately, it is an unknown path. What the guide does is get us oriented in the direction of the unknown, prepares us, if you like, so that we can now travel that road, fearlessly."

Jim, this is beautiful, and clear.

I feel that I'm understanding you more, and when you say "fearlessly," I think I know what you mean. In a very ultimate sense, there is nothing to fear. Because, ultimately, there is no end. When this is known one can "travel that road fearlessly." But relative fear, along with all other kinds of Human feeling, is a part of the body – at least in my realm of feeling. I've just learned to relate to it in a different way. I'm not "afraid of fear" anymore. It appears to me to be kind of like stage fright. It always accompanies a performance, but it doesn't stop me from going on stage and giving my all. It doesn't surprise me anymore either. I know it's there. I know it's part of my body. It's actually a very valuable part. So I value it. It keeps me alert. It ensures my diligent practice. Because it lives with me, I must keep myself strong and focused. It gives me a reference to go beyond. It challenges me to be courageous. Its presence balances the extremes of my enthusiasm. In respecting the value of fear, I've made it my ally. And it has proven to be a very powerful one.

"There will always be those few, like yourself it seems, who have no guides whatsoever, and for them it is completely a journey of faith into the unknown. Although in your case, were you not guided, in some sense, by the Eternal Beings? Even Krishnamurti had guidance from the Theosophical teachings early in life, and though he later rejected most of them, the essential teachings, that enlightenment or freedom did exist, stayed with him."

I've been quiet with this, wondering how to talk about "just how did I learn when I was with the Eternal Beings?" Nothing that even remotely resembled a word, or an idea, or a reference to anything, ever passed between us. Yet, during my years with them, I learned all about their growth in time, extending deep into the ancient past. The physical referents for that growth are very, very fundamental – so much so that most people aren't even aware of their existence. But, because they are so fundamental, they give form to the huge mass of growth that we can see and experience as the present.

I learned by movement – by watching the changing of movement in the fundamental level of my existence at that time. It was very much simplified, and so simple that it was easily observed. It mostly just required endless patience and attention. The Eternal Beings were definitely a part of my learning. And during the time I was with them, a completely new foundation for my existence was constructed. They did not teach in any way that Humans would recognize as teaching. And I didn't learn in a familiar way either. But a fundamental change did happen.

When you go to a foreign land, lots of information comes in through your senses and change happens, even if you can't speak a word of the language. And even if no one teaches you the language, you absorb things. It was kind of like that. That way of learning really works for me. I always feel solid in that. The times I've tried to listen to another, and understand and apply it, I've invariably ended up lost. To me, disconnection seems to be built into that approach, simply because you can't listen to another and listen to your own heart at the same time. But then, possibly I'm speaking of practice, and you are speaking of prerequisites to practice. Could this be?

Anyway, this interests me because teaching and being expressive are both aspects of communication that are important to my work. I want to combine separate modes of communication. I want that for my own unifying growth, and for my artistic expression.



Suzanne says:

This seems like a wonderful exchange. The more nuanced reality is seen to be, the more real it is, it seems to me. I got to one point about Gail learning by "absorbing things," and I thought crop circles. Here's what I just sent out to the croppie community:

My guess is that we'll never get to shake hands with the otherness – it's not about them landing here. It's about us being in aspiration to meet them, which opens a beam between us and them. Open it from our end and they beam in more – not as them, but as us, being more of who we are. They are our inner teachers, our psychedelics, our access to where they are which is where the universal intelligence resides. We are becoming it. Bless the intelligence of the otherness in giving us an unparalleled tool for our success as a species.



Jim replies to Gail:

Yes, fear can be a powerful ally if we treat it as such. Have you written at length anywhere about your time with the Eternal Beings? Is this information that can be published? It would make a fascinating read, I would think.

Your metaphor of travel to a foreign land is excellent, and makes your point about how your learned from the Eternal Beings's much clearer. Having traveled quite a bit myself, I know exactly what you mean. Being in a different culture/setting shifts one out of one's old perspective or paradigm, and new learning seeps through, osmotically almost.

Regarding teaching and practice, and the difficulty you say you have with learning when listening to another, I don't know. I know people do learn differently. I have always had a left-brain kind of approach, I suppose, but it has to be felt in the heart, or at a cellular level – the resonation of truth – too.

Advaita, the path to liberation, is an intellectually-based teaching just like the teaching of quantum physics, English grammar, or just about anything. There are even specific instructions given in order to learn how to ski, or play the cello. In Advaita, the core teaching is that the person you take yourself to be, the "me" with all its history and qualifications, is an illusion. It is a fabrication. It is something you have made up. You exist as an awareness, as a conscious being, an expression of consciousness, and you have unique personality traits, but fundamental, you are nobody. And, in being nobody, you are a manifestation of the entire universe.

This was the teaching given to me. It rang true at a very deep level. I stayed with it over a number of years and gradually let go the attachment to nama-rupa, as the Hindus call it, to name and form. Eventually I saw through the illusion of my own self image and story and my head cleared in a pretty total way. (When I say, "I saw," by the way, I mean I as consciousness, as pure awareness, saw).

When we don't take ourselves to be anybody anymore, there's tremendous freedom in that. There's no "person" to be afraid. There is just consciousness, awareness, the timeless flow of being. If there is a practice, it is to be the fully conscious, fully aware beings that we are.

Maybe it is not a path for everyone, although the freest people I have met – the freest of fear, of ego, of self-doubt, of the past – all seemed to end up if not taking this path, then at least at the destination. Freedom, above all, is freedom from any constraints of "me, myself, or I."

Maybe you have a better or different definition?



Madam X shares:

Here's what MagicalBlendNews@egroups.com – MagicalBlend.com had to say in their most recent mailing:

Contact true loving givingness when you visit Madame X's Website where you can order the most beautiful hand-crafted books on being a human. "I am Madam X and I come from the distant reaches of Time. In my culture we are all travelers through Time. My ancestors were the discoverers of the Great Sphere of Time, and we were the first Culture in the entire Universe to comprehend the motion and design of time." From: The Story of the Beings of the Great Sphere of Time.



Diahann shares:

A Feminist Contemplation for Christmas:

Contemplate what would have happened if there had been three Wise Women instead of Three Wise Men...

*They would have asked directions
*Arrived on time
*Helped deliver the baby
*Cleaned the stable
*Made a casserole
*Brought practical gifts and
*There would be Peace on Earth

Pass this on to the wise women in your life.



Madam X replies:

***It's NOT too late for the wise women to appear***

I think there is still a great need. One thing though, it's a long and difficult journey, and not for the uncommitted, fearful, or weak. Our clothes might get dirty, and there might not be any dessert. But, on the other hand, we will definitely not get bored or fall asleep in front of the TV. We'll be too busy with awe, amazement, complete fascination, and LOVE!



Suzanne interjects:

Thought this email I received from Tom Atlee might be good HBS food for thought...

FYI, Michael Dowd (whom I know) has a model to operationalize Brian Swimme – have us live the new story instead of just talk about it.



Gail responds:

Suzanne, this is most definitely very GOOD food for thought. I felt hopeful just in reading it. And I feel it drawing me into a larger space. I have learned creative, nurturing values for my own growth, but am only at the beginning of learning to use them in the new world of interaction. I learn by doing. Right now, very experimental doing.

I, too, am tired of just talk. I am looking for something specific, something needed and meaningful, some way we can all be challenged and involved, some way of growing in a larger context, something realistically doable. Everything I think of seems to be more words. But I feel excited by the words and creative use of words in the message you sent.

Let's talk more about this? Perhaps you have more practical thoughts than I do? I think the HBS will grow through meaningful activity. What do you think?



Suzanne says:

I received this email from Ted Laurence who came across the tribute to Lex Hixon:

Subject: Gratitude
I have no comments to make about non-duality, except that I am enjoying it! And this thanks in large part to Lex Hixon, so this is simply a note of gratitude. Many moons ago, at a Jungian Seminar in Southern California, I visited a bookstall after the conference, and there was Lex, selling his book Coming Home. When I purchased it, Lex inscribed it with this prayer: "May the Divine Mother in all Her forms and as the Clear Light continue to protect you and illumine you in all ways on all levels." And so it is!!! Thank you Lex, wherever you are! My Lex web page: Lex Page.

I responded to him with this:

Hi Ted – How sweet this is. Lex was an original and many people were touched. Madam X has now come along. Check her out on my Website: www.theconversation.org/madamxshow.html. God bless you for your dedication – takes my breath away.

Much to my surprise, he came back with this:

Thank you so much for your pleasant reply. Yes, I see that Madam X is alive and well, therefore I have taken the liberty of making a page for our site: http://maxpages.com/soulmake/madam. It will appear in the ARTICLES OF FAITH menu.

I've invited him to a Human Being Society meeting.



Gail delightedly responds:

Suzanne, Oh my goodness!!! This is an honor. Nothing could make me happier than to be used in this way, and to be a part of this. I'm amazed over and over again to see so much beauty in the world that I could not see before. Thank you, Suzanne. (Are you aware of your healing gifts? You are restoring the sight of this blind one, ME!)



Suzanne says:

Regarding the U.S. 2000 Presidential Election (or lack thereof!), I sent this to the people in Congress who are the Democratic leadership and to my Senators and Representative:

Thank God for Al Gore.

He is doing everyone a huge favor. The only way we will have peace is if every track is played out. Then everyone can accept the winner. Short of that, you will have a deeply divided electorate for four years, where one side won't be able to live with the conclusion. This difficulty can turn into a blessing if we take the high road and rise up to be a great America, renewed in its foundational high principles. Please have him tell everyone how what he is doing is vital for us all. We don't know how long this will take. At any point the outcome could become obvious and it will be over. Or it might go on and on, until all means are done and we get a score. It is the process that must be committed to, no matter how long it takes.



Gail responds:

Bravo Suzanne.

*You get three stars for being a voice of sensibility and fairness.
*You also get a commendation for strength. (not so many are able to stand with balance in storms like this)
*And lastly, you get a bow, for Being Human responsibly, and passionately.

Thank you for this essence of creation and growth: "It is the process that must be committed to, no matter how long it takes."

A few weeks ago, while browsing as my friend shopped, I came across a little Sufi book. I knew nothing about Sufis, but this little book attracted me, and I bought it. Last night I was reading it, and it is so, so beautiful. Here is something that is in it:

"When Loqman was asked from whom he learnt goodness, he replied, 'From those without goodness, because what seemed unbecoming in them I avoided doing myself.'" -Sa'di-

I Love this. I think it is a most practical way of being responsive to what is felt as imperfection. And a very insightful way of using one's own critical responses.

I've always thought of spirituality and everyday actions as a single thing, because I had learned, in my simple way, how completely integrated they really are. As the spirit grows, it is tested and challenged by everyday life. And this is how it develops strength and wisdom. And just like school, it doesn't go on without passing the tests. Loqman must have been a very wise Sufi to understand this, and to practice his understanding to such a degree that his personal responses actually became his own challenge and guide.

I think of this whole process as an art. As it develops, with more and more clarity and subtlety, the Human Being actually becomes the work of art. The purpose of Being Human develops, too, as awareness becomes more and more integrated, carrying itself forward on its adventure in the unknown.



Suzanne replies:

I like this very much – ring of truth sort of thing. Seems so much like the common wisdom that could be understood, beyond the labels of right and wrong. (You know what Sufi Rumi said about this? Paraphrased, "Beyond our ideas of right-doing and wrong-doing, there is a field. I'll meet you there.") It's your blessed custodianship of Being that puts us in the flow of this workable – as you call it, practical – way.

Lex was a Sufi master. Sufis celebrate the human possibility. You and Lex would have liked each other. Remind me to show you his Sufi book, Atom From the Sun of Knowledge, – we could read a wonderful chapter of it out loud together, just like Lex liked to do.



Gail responds:

After reading your email about Lex, I went to your Mighty Companions Lex page. I don't know why I hadn't seen this page before, but I read your interview with him, his last. It is so very beautiful.

Lex said:

"Life itself is the teacher"

"The ultimate teaching power is teaching all the time. Everywhere in society, in the mundane activities of keeping our homes, we can participate in the great teaching.... what we call the relative and the ultimate are never separated."

Yes, I would have Loved him too. He speaks like a real Human Being. And his is a very wise reality. I am moved by his words.

"This period of testing, of feeling everything is lost, happens with regularity to all human beings. They must get through it and that's the way they grow. Human life itself is spiritual life."

Suzanne, isn't it so strange that similar words are now coming out of me, and you? And I know nothing of him, and just now began to read about him on your site? I don't think I've ever tuned in to someone I feel so in harmony with.

I'll show you my little Sufi book, and we can show each other. It would be wonderful to read a little, it is such nourishing and exquisite stuff.



Suzanne replies:

So glad you appreciate dear Lex. Have been looking for his successor in my reality, and here you are!!!!



And then Gail:

I wondered, for a lifetime, if anyone would ever see me, and then.....you did.



Suzanne says:

More on this nightmare Presidential Election:

I am feeling crazed. This naked emperor, a deer caught in the headlights, is about to become the leader of the free world. People cheer him as he bumbles, "Uh, the law is on our side, uh," while he is thwarting the consideration of as many ballots as he can keep out of the count. How can we watch this and not rise up in indignation?

The idea that Bush will be good for the country, leading to stock market record gains yesterday when his victory looked to be at hand, defies everything I perceive the good to be. Most significantly, if he is president the rich will get richer and the poor poorer, exacerbating this tension that is held to be the greatest threat to the peaceful progress of the world.

God love us that we are so respectful of the rule of law that we let ourselves be manipulated by it past when it's time to reconsider guided by the principle of lawfulness. Let the will of the Florida electorate be done, not the errors of their representatives be enshrined. There's half the people who won't get their way no matter who wins, but we are as good as our ideology, where even one vote difference defines an underlying fairness. It must be our intent to determine that – how to count is a subsequent issue, but that we intend to count has to be the objective. How can we be so blind? Ah, maybe it's all those men in suits. Not a woman in view on either legal team. In fact, just picture if women ran this whole shebang. Ah, I digress.

What else don't we say? Yuck on Ralph Nader. What an ego. He inserted himself, with no popular call for him. He had not the right to so move the world. Progress for Ralph would be to humbly acknowledge the error of his ways. That might be a spur to some coalescing – it would be an honest meeting place. In fact, coalescing seems like the only pro-active thing that is in order. What else can we do? Let there be born a feeling body, which could be useful in a time of discontent, which is likely to be what's ahead. This could start if you answer me – maybe copy to others. Here we are, in a playing field – we can toss a ball around. See what happens. What do you think?

One more thought is that life goes along balancing itself out, in the course of which in fact breakdowns precede breakthroughs. We can take heart from what heroism now will be spurred to enter the world stage.

Vision : A birth. A new understanding being born. Voices from everywhere. A chance for us to define ourselves. To go to a higher octave. We, the people, working as a whole.



Gail replies:

Suzanne speaks of a "Vision: A birth. A new understanding being born. Voices from everywhere. A chance for us to define ourselves. To go to a higher octave."

I think we have been a lot like prospective parents, awaiting the birth of a child. We have tried to imagine what it will be like, what to do, and how to prepare for it. We've been aware that it is coming, but all we could really do was practice and be patient.

Now, presence is catching up with our dreams. What may have seemed like disjointed parts are beginning to fit together and make sense, to me at least. The Human Being Society was a "vision," too, but I always wondered how its spiritual roots would take physical form, to be applied in a practical and meaningful way. And would there ever really be a need for it, and a place for it?

Suzanne also says: "In fact, coalescing seems like the only pro-active thing that is in order. What else can we do?"

The need I am feeling is to BE, without anything added – without ANYTHING additional that would begin another kind of separation. Madeleine's comments last weekend, in response to our reading of the play, that she felt excluded, that it was "us" (Humans) and "them" (Eternal Beings), was another reminder to me of just how subtle this really is. And it challenges my sensitivity. Because I absolutely do NOT want to create another level of "us" and "them."

I do want to be a part of "we."

The question no longer seems to be "what are we going to do?" We're doing it already, as best we can. It's developing. And it's been productive, in that many, many "possibilities" have been discarded one by one, and what is left (for me) is just to BE. And now I'm seeing how simply Being is our common ground. And how we really are One there.

Suzanne again: "Let there be born a feeling body, which could be useful in a time of discontent, which is likely to be what's ahead."

The only way a body can feel in a complete way, a healthy way, is to be open and responsive. It needs a sense of its oneness. And it needs to be able to respect itself and believe in itself. It seems to me that there is imbedded, deep in our evolutionary roots, a sense of what is right and good, and that when these are lived, self respect and belief are also present. I think (?) we all know this. It just needs saying aloud, because, for whatever reason, it has become confused.

Suzanne: "Life goes along balancing itself out, in the course of which in fact breakdowns precede breakthroughs. We can take heart from what heroism now will be spurred to enter the world stage."

Could the Human Being Society be the voice of unity? Could our purpose be to bridge the gap between the many separated and specialized groups which we exist as today? To make unity a part of it, too? Could our spiritual roots provide the foundation for a growth of balance, strength, and equanimity? A living example in the midst of the fray? I think that would be worth doing.

Suzanne has announced our invitation: "Here we are, in a playing field – we can toss a ball around. See what happens. What do you think?"

I think this is perfect. I think it is valuable. I think it is needed.



Madam X adds:

When I read the title of Margaret Wheatley's piece, "Learning from Nature's Emergent Creativity," I knew that something was brewing. I read it this morning. She is saying the same thing I've been trying to communicate, relative to her own particular arena of life. The essential idea is the same way that I practice and grow, but she is an established and respected person in the world. This is thrilling! And the way she talks – this way is becoming known, and considered seriously. This is so great! I'm going out this afternoon and get her book to read.

I also had another flash. When you began to speak about the deeper meaning of the crop circles and the order of Life, I saw you in a completely different way. And I saw you standing at a door of learning. All the teachers were around you. Listen to them:

(you said:)
"It's about us being in aspiration to meet them, which opens a beam between us and them. Open it from our end and they beam in more – not as them, but as us, being more of who we are. They are our inner teachers, our psychedelics, our access to where they are which is where the universal intelligence resides. We are becoming it. Bless the intelligence of the otherness in giving us an unparalleled tool for our success as a species."

I saw you opening it from your end. You know, the universal intelligence (the self-organizing wisdom) naturally fills any opening. It will fill you, as you keep opening to it. I was thrilled to see this too! Completely unexpected. And I saw us (you and I) passing each other in the doorway, you going in, and me going out.

You know, it seems that each time I find myself exhausted, and I just cannot see any farther, and I just go on anyway – in the dark – soon, I begin to see again. The "self-organizing" ideas from Margaret's piece have made my world lighter, and a little more familiar. Just the reality of other people talking and working with similar thoughts and practices (in the corporate world? wow!) made me feel just a little bit like I might survive here. I don't want to hang around spiritual communities anymore. I want to explore the world.




Upon this gifted age, in its dark hour,
Rains from the sky a meteoric shower
Of facts...they lie unquestioned, uncombined.
Wisdom enough to leech us of our ill
Is daily spun, but there exists no loom
To weave it into fabric...

-Edna St. Vincent Millay-

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